110th Annual Convention
International Association of Chiefs of Police
October 21-25, 2003
Transcript of: PANEL: EDUCATION, DISCIPLINE
AND LAW ENFORCEMENT
Now lets join us live for the The International Association
of Chiefs of Police presents the 110th Annual Convention,
being held October 21-25 at Philadelphia, PA. This presentation
is a panel on Education and Discipline in Law Enforcement..
Hello, I'm John Furman, Director for Research for the IACP.
I want to welcome you to this panel. If you are here for education,
discipline and law enforcement. You are in the right place,
anything else you are in the wrong place. Keeping a record
of your attendance as you know our card readers are in the back
room so as you check in and check out you swipe your card so you
can document your participation. This session is being recorded,
so you can pick up as always from National Audio Video Sales Booth
200 level, you can get a copy if you wish to do so. We think
this is a really important topic. You guys already passed
the first test on discipline because you managed to get up and get
here this morning. We think it is a really important
topic, seriously. I am going to introduce at this point, IACP
third Vice President, Mary Ann Viverette, Chief of the Gaithersburg
Maryland Police Department to moderate our panel, .and hope our
questions will be answered. This panel will begin with Ph.D.
Scott Cunningham, who is the Deputy Chief in Tampa. He initiated
a five-page white paper which was handed out to you. If you
havent had a chance to read it yet please make sure you do.
Its got some great information from a study that was conducted in
Florida. For the researchers in this room and for those of
you who know researchers, we are certainly looking for researchers
to expand this research effort that was conducted in Florida on
a smaller scale with the Police Administration Committee. So if
you know anyone that might want to take on this effort, I would
love to see it on a more of a national level.
Mary Ann Viverette
Good morning everyone, it really is good to see everyone here
so early this morning. As a member of the board of officers,
Id like to welcome you to this conference and we hope you are having
a good time so far and glad you could be with us this morning for
this early panel discussion on Education, Discipline and Law Enforcement.
Id have the pleasure as serving as the oversight Vice President
for the Police Administration Committtee. And last year, if
you would recall when President Bill Burger was President, he had
quite a few initiatives. One of the initiatives that he started
was discussion about education, discipline and law enforcement and
how they were related. We were very pleased that we were able
to put together four panelist today. Experts in the field,
all Ph.Ds. They have both academic and law enforcement
experience in this area. And I think you will find this very
interesting and enjoyable. Hopefully you will have some good
questions to talk about. As a Chief of Police in Gaithersburg
for 17 yrs, I have also struggled with this issue on what level
to set for entry level? How it impacts our recruiting effort?
And I see quite a few Chiefs in the audience and I know all of you
are struggling with attempting to get additional recruits in and
not wanting to lower your standards. So we are going to talk
about that today and hopefully some of our questions
It is my pleasure to introduce the panel this morning and our
first speaker is Scott Cunningham. Scott is the Deputy Chief
of Operations at the Tampa Florida Police Department. He has
over 24 yrs experience and a wide range of assignments. He
spent several years assigned to the regional police academy and
has managed the training and personnel functions including recruitments,
hiring and training. He holds a Bachelor degree, a Masters
in Public Administration and a Ph.D. in Adult Education and Management.
Hes active in several professional and academic organizations.
He Chairs the Police Administration Committee for the International
Association of the Chiefs of Police and he was the lead author on
the research that was initiating this panel. Thats the paper
that I just spoke about. Please welcome, Scott Cunningham
Good morning, it is a very nice pleasure to see so many people
here this morning to talk about a topic like this. The reality
is that for decades we have been talking about education in policing
and what it can bring, what it might bring, what also problems it
does bring to the table. Myself and some of the other panelists
will be able to bring you today some of the practical experiences
but also some of the research that shows that there are some definitive
benefits to higher level of education for the practical side of
policing. The reality is that policing in all respects is
the most visible and most intrusive governmental action that there
is. When you look at Philadelphia and the cradle of democracy
and you look at the Constitution and Declaration of Independence,
all of our Four Fathers. The documents that they wrote that
guide our actions today on the national level and on each state
level with state constitutions, .really talk about limiting government
power, controlling police power and also the abuse - possible abuse
of police powers. The police are the most visible, like I
said, of governmental actions. So anything that they is going
to be wide spread, as far as impact, as far as discussion.
Today in the media, in the news, and all forums you see a lot of
focus on police activities. Whether this is police tactics,
whether it is the use of force, biased based policing. All
these types of issues have a direct impact on what we do today in
The reality is though that everyday
our police officers have millions of citizen contact in the public.
Everyday, millions of contacts. Out of those contacts,
we actually have a very minute percentage of people that actually
file complaints against police departments.. Even smaller
number are sustained. The problem is however, that all it
takes is one incident of a certain type or magnitude in it that
it draws national attention to policing. Why I bring that
up is that anything that can help us police our communities and
serve our communities better and still maintain those key items
of trust and integrity that the Constitution was formed on is going
to help us to be able to do our job better. And what
we have been looking at is that educational levels can have an impact
in maintaining that integrity and lowering the amount of discipline
that there is out there.
How policing deals
with discipline and problems and incidents is essential to maintaining
the trust of the populist that we protect. Those issues that
we talked about briefly, the use of force, biased base policing
all key back to integrity and trust. As long as the population
can trust us, their grant of power to the police will be maintained.
The minute that they lose faith in us, then they begin to pull back
on the amount of power and abuse that does happen. It is not
only our duty as a profession to discipline ourselves but it is
essential to our going forward. Inappropriate
actions do have wide-ranging impact on your police agency.
Your police department may not have been the one that had some type
of incident, but across the country on the other side country an
incident can stir problems in your community. Anything that
we can do to reduce those incidents must be looked at. Thats
why we are focusing on education in the current study. Like
I said, it has been discussed for decades. National commissions
have recommended that education levels be increased. There
has been a lot of debate about it. Can we hire people to balance
our agency so that it serves the community well? Can we keep
those people once we have them? Some of the other panelists
will get into more detail about that. But if any part of the
educational process, educational level, anything that we can do
to reduce discipline problems, anything we can to reduce the incidents
where the public may lose trust and confidence in us should be examined.
That is one of the reasons we began this study. As you know
all most every state has some kind of certification body.
Whether you call it police officers standards and training, standards
and training commission whatever. Almost every state has some
authority like that to oversee policing in their entire jurisdiction.
Some of those POSTs have powers that really only include minimal
standards and the actual training that is offered to the officers
and required of the officers. Other states go up to the full
range of oversight of certification, indicating that they can or
cannot stop someone from practicing the profession in the state.
The reality is that about 47states do at this point have the ability
to revoke an officers certification. So the ability for a
regulation on a statewide basis is almost universal in the United
States. However, historically, discipline has almost always
been a purview of the employing agency. Rarely will discipline
rise to where an occasion where state authority will step in and
say, No that is not enough discipline or an inappropriate level
of discipline. However, in the last two decades, State Commissions
have become more active and more pro-active in dealing with disciplinary
levels. What we tried to look at is. Do levels of education
have an impact on the amount of discipline issued out? We
looked across the country, we also did it partly by ease, Florida
has a very detailed and length system where we can track and amount
of education that an officer has and we can also track the discipline.
The reality is that part of it is the Florida pays dollars out to
the officers based on educational levels. So it makes it easy
for one authority to post their criminal justice standards training
commission. They have all that information, so it is easy
to track and identify. Other states have a lot of this information,
but it is in different formats and a lot harder to get. California,
Texas and some other states have some very good systems. But
it is trying to line up to get that data out of their systems.
What we did is looked at
Florida because of the ease and also the number. In 2002,
there were approximately 43,000 officers, law enforcement only,
in the state of Florida. Now the commission there oversees
everything. Law enforcement, corrections, probation,
parole, the whole ball of wax. But what we did here was only
look at law enforcement. So in the State of Florida in August
2002, they had approximately 43,000 certified law enforcement officers.
We took a five-year period; we looked at all the discipline from
1997 to 2002 that was issued at the state level. If we looked
at it from the department level, there would be too much variety,
to much difference. What one agency might issue some type
of written disciplinary format, another might suspend for.
There was no similarities across the line. So what we did
was look at the state level. At the state level they are going
to be consistent because it is one body of government that
oversees all the disciplinary and certification matters. What
we found out was that, and this is in part of your documents that
you have, in Table 1 it shows that 58% of the officers in Florida
had only a high school degree. Each level moves up a little
bit and those officers, 16% of all officers have an associates,
while 24% of those have a bachelors degree.
is normal, everything is equal and there is no relationship between
education and discipline, you would tend to believe and the stats
would tend to support that the amount of discipline would equal
about the amount of officer population. In other words, 58%
of the officers in Florida have a high school diploma, you
would think about 58% of all the discipline issued by the State
commission would be to officers with a high school education.
If there is some type of relationship, you would expect that number
to start to fluctuate, either higher or lower. In our case
we are actually hoping, because we wanted to look at it and see
if education had a positive impact on discipline. We would hope
that as you get more education level your percentage of discipline
would actually drop. When you look at Table 2 in the paper,
you can look at all discipline issued at the state level.
Now that would be letters of censure, probation, revocation, voluntary
relinquishment. Obviously, a revocation or a voluntary relinquishment
of certification is the ultimate in the profession. IF that
happens to you then your license to practice is gone. You
are done practicing in the state of Florida and with reciprocal
agreements and the information exchange, you are most likely done
anywhere in the country. That part of the system is like most
other states. Thats not unique to Florida. If the POST
removes your certification, you are done in your profession.
So to do that, they take it very seriously, so it really has to
be some pretty significant action for them to take that.
Table 2 shows that if you just look across
the whole spectrum of discipline issued by the Florida Justice Standards
Training Commission in a five year period, 75% of all the discipline
they issued was to officers with a high school diploma. Even
though only 58% of the officers in the state have high school as
their ultimate level of education, 75% of all the discipline issued
was to that group. As it rises up, an associates degree 16%
of the population, but only 12% of the discipline. The same
with a bachelors, 24% of the population of officers has a bachelor
degree, but they only accounted for 12% of all the discipline issued
by the state commission. So what we are already starting to
see, is when you look at all discipline the lower education level,
the base education level, a high school degree, high school diploma
is accounting for significantly more discipline than what that officer
population is. As a side note the state of Florida only
requires a High School degree to be certified in the state.
So it is not that the state has gone to an extraneous level or anything
else, it is the basic level. One of the big key
things here is in Table 3. Revocation and Voluntary Relinquishment,
- the most massive professional penalty that exists. You lose
your certification, youre out. What we found there, when you
just look at the just those two categories, get rid of the probation,
get rid of the censures, get rid of letters of admonishment, all
that stuff. When you look at the most severe form of discipline
that the state can issue, high school educational officers accounted
for 77% of all certification losses. Even though once again
they only represent 58% of the population. That means your
officer is gone, they have done something so severe that the state
has taken the certification away from them. The associates
degree is pretty much about the same level as all discipline.
Sixteen percent of the population, but they account for only 12%
of certification losses. The bachelors is about the similar
also, 24% of the population, but only 11% of the certification losses.
What we are able to see here, is that for a variety of reasons,
maybe none good maybe some good. The officers with the basic education
level, the high school entry, which make up of only about 57% of
the population of Florida account for 77% and 78% of all the discipline
that the states issues at the state level. We have all been
in the business you know that when the state steps in, does disciplinary
action it is usually a pretty severe time,.especially when you are
talking about a certification loss. Now does this mean that
there is a direct cause and effect relationship that if you hire
someone with a masters degree or something else that they will not
get in trouble? No it does not. But what it does indicate
is that for some reasons, high-educated officers are less likely,
they account for less discipline in the state level than their population.
So in other words, if you have 100 officers, and they are all high
school educated. You are going to lose more of them to certification
loses than if you have that same number of officers that are all
Is there other things that play into
it, the position, the amount of time, yes there are? Thats
why we need to take it a step further. This is not meant to
be a definitive study, but rather one more piece of evidence in
the whole collection to say, How can we maintain public trust, how
can we maintain a police force that is going to serve the community
well. When you add this to other things, the professional
training. Longevity, on and on, education seems to be a viable part
that can help police agency reduce the amount of discipline, reduce
the amount of severe discipline that is issued which will in effect
come back to haunt you if you do have a lot of disciplinary problems
if the public loses trust. What we will do is move on and
if you have specific questions well take them later and let the
other people add on to this. Thank you very much.
Mary Ann Viverette
Thanks Scott, the panelist have agreed if anyone has any burning
questions, please throw your hand up, but if you have questions
that you want to hold till after, we will be happy to answer them.
Our second speaker today is T. Bowman, who is currently the Police
Chief in Arlington Texas. T has served as a Chief since March
1999, in Arlington. He has 20 yrs, over 20 yrs of police experience.
Chief Bowman has a Ph.D. in Urban and Police Administration from
the University of Texas. He is a graduate of the FBI/NA and
FBI National Executive Institute and the Senior Management Institute
for Police. His department requires officers to have a bachelors
degree to enter the department and T also is a member of the Executive
Committee which is a governing body of the International Association
of the Chiefs of Police. T welcome
Thank you, let me say good morning to you and its really an honor
for me to have the opportunity to speak to you this morning.
Ill speak briefly and then honor any questions that you have immediately
after I speak or preferably after the last speaker has spoken this
morning. Anyway, I am very much an advocate of higher educational
standards in policing. My department, as Chief Viverette
articulated does require police officers to have a bachelors degree.
Now up until 1986, our department, only required our officers to
have high school degrees or high school diploma, then in 1986, the
then Police Chief David Compel changed the requirement to either
a Bachelors degree or an Associates degree with at least two years
prior police experience. And so now we are 17 yrs into
some high education requirement. In 1999, when I took over
as Police Chief, we erased the associate degree alternative and
required every officer entering the department to have a bachelors
degree. Chief Compel also required that after 1996, anybody
promoted to any supervisory rank within the department would be
required to have a bachelors degree. In 1999, I added to that,
that anyone promoted to an Assistant Chiefs position would be required
to have a masters degree. And so my department has some years
of experience in recruiting and retaining officers with bachelor
degrees. In fact today, 85% of our police department now hasa
bachelors degree. Arlington, Texas - it sits right in
the middle of North Texas between Dallas and Ft Worth. The
city has a population of some 352,000 people. We are racially
and ethnically a diverse city. According to the 2000 census,.
the population is 18% Hispanic, 12% African American
and approximately 60% Anglo, 6% Asian and a mix of others.
We know that the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission and Federal
law requires that our department be approximately reflective of
the community, approximately refletive of the available workforce
in the area. I can tell you that our department does a better
job of being reflective of the community than just about any other
department in Texas, and we do a better job than any other department
in the North Texas area. Now, I am a firm believer that higher
education requirement adds tremendous benefits to my administration
as police chief, but also to the citizens in their police officers,
and police department. Many chiefs today and many departments
when we consider increasing our educational requirement, we tend
to be overcome by the myths that are out there. One, we ask
the question, What does it benefit or what would it benefit me to
increase educational requirement in my department? Well the
first myth I typically hear is That you can not recruit minority
officers if you raise your educational standards. My response
to that is thats not true. We have in fact more successful
recruiting minority officers and protected class officers with a
bachelors degree requirement than ever before. And we are
more successful that other departments with no degree requirement
in recruiting minority officers. Let me tell you why, partially
why that is the case. Minority potential officers who are
college students tend to be first generation college students, some
attend college by virtual of a grant program, work study some, or
are able to pay for college. But virtually mostly minority
is first generation college students. When as a community,
you have the history with law enforcement that most minority communities
have in this country,. parents and relatives who work hard to put
their children through college to obtain a bachelor degree want
their children to go to work at a place that value that education.
The fact is, that today with the diversification of population in
this country and population all over the world are increasing in
diversity, those few applicants with those degrees are going to
go to work in places where that degree, that time, that investment
of time is honored are going to go somewhere that requires that
degree. Now there is a law of economics that is called Gresham
Law. Lord Gresham from the UK actually authored this law that says
that the A bill of lower intrinsic value will chase a bill of higher
intrinsic value out of circulation. Put in laymans terms,
what that says to us is that we dont have more educated people in
policing because we dont have high education requirements.
Now, I buy into Scott Cunninghams paper wholeheartedly. Because
it is our experience, that not only are we better able to attract
minority applicants but we have lower incidents of discipline among
our officers. We have high retention rates for
police officers, we dont have officers getting frustrated or getting
stressed out because they cannot move, we challenge our officers.
And as a result we are rewarded. We are rewarded in terms
with lower crime, higher job satisfaction, higher citizen satisfaction
than our city. Our city for its size, has one of the lowest
crime rates in the country. We were named last years as one
of the 30 safest cities in the country. And it is largely
attributable to our work force. So I can go on and on about
the benefits of officers having higher education. I teach
graduate courses in policing and in every class I ask my students
which of them attended high school that were at least 90% one ethnicity
or another. Most students have. But when they go to
college and they sit in a college classroom and attend college classes
suddenly they are exposed to ethnicity, racism and nationalities
that heretofore they have not been exposed to. The dynamics
that are played out in the classroom, in a classroom discussion,
in a classroom debate, help our young people to understand how to
disagree and how to agree to disagree. It helps them to understand
how to perhaps not agree with others who are different from themselves,
but yet respect the differences and opinions. It teaches them
to communicate with people from all walks of life, to accept their
viewpoints, and although they may not agree that they can accept
and communicate without going to the last resort, thats shooting,
force or violence. So all in all our degreed officers, typically
have developed critical thinking skills, they have developed the
ability to communicate with people from all walks of life.
They have been exposed to life experiences, that perhaps might have
taken an additional 5-10 years of just street experience for them
to get there. But when we hire them, they are already there.
And then the benefits to my administration actually are obviated
in lower crime and higher citizen satisfaction and higher job satisfaction
numbers among the employees that we have. I am an advocate
and I will be glad to answer any question later on today that you
Mary Ann Viverette
Thank you Chief. One of the reasons why I really enjoy
being involved in the IACP is to be around people like Chief
Bowman whose enthusiasm and the initiative and optimism that he
has is overwhelming to me and it helps to motivate me and I think
all of you would love to talk about your agencies as you can about
yours. So congratulations. I know it has a lot to do with
your leadership and the leadership that went before you, but certainly
I think it does have a correlation to the education and we are glad
you could be with us today.
Our next speaker, you expected to be Dr. Shelly Greenberg from
Hopkins, my home state of Maryland. He was unable to be with
us today, but I was fortunate the other day last week to meet Dr.
Freidman and asked him to join us. I am pleased that he could
be with us and talk from the academic side. Dr. Robert Freidman
is a professor of the Criminal Justice Georgia - State University
in Atlanta, and served as a department chair from 1989 to 2002.
He is the founding director of the Criminal Justice Statistical
Analysts Bureau, the Georgia International Law Enforcement Exchange
Program and the International Law Enforcement Enterprise at GSU.
Dr. Freidman received his BS in Sociology and Anthropology and Philosophy
from the University of Hifa Israel in 1974. His MA and Ph.D.
is sociology from the University of Minnesota in 1978 and his MS
in social work from the University of Wisconsin Madison in 1981.
Prior to his appointment at GSU, he held teaching positions at the
University of Hifa Israel and the University of Minnesota.
His research interests and published works focus on community policing,
comparative criminal justice and crime analyst. Dr. Freidman
chaired the Georgia Commission to Assess State Crime Laboratory
Needs into the 21st century. He is the chair of the advisory
board of the Georgia Security Council and he is very proud to be
a member of the Community Policing Committee of the International
Association of Chiefs of Police.. Hes a recipient of many
awards and we are very honored to have him today. Please join
me in welcoming Dr. Freidman.
Good morning, it is indeed an unexpected pleasure and I am honored
to be here in front of you. I did want to specify that BS
means Bachelor of Science. Just in case. Let me make
a few comments that I think will augment and reinforce the points
that were made earlier, and I was very pleased to hear that.
Because often times, education is resisted, so let me make a few
clarifying points -. my unbiased position about higher education
and see what we can make out of it. Many years ago, a renounced
sociologist by the name of C. Wright Mills was talking about private
troubles and public issues. And in the concensus, that is,
what we are talking about, and would like to specify on the outset
that a single individual police officer who is educated is by no
means any better than a single police officer who is uneducated.
And by education, I am talking about having a formal degree obtained.
I am not talking about life experience, I am not talking about street
smart and I am not talking about the ability to perform out on the
street. But moving away from private differences to public
issues, education has the values that you heard are articulated
here. And I wanted to specify that really the lack of formal
degree has some detriments to the function of police in modern society.
The challenge of moving police departments towards education or
having higher education is not unlike university move from the status
of teaching universities to research universities. Most of
you probably have never had to care about this. I took over
a department, that when I was hired, one of the people who interviewed
me said If you want me to do research and publish if you put a million
dollars on the table and light a match under my foot I would still
not do it. So when you are talking about resistance to scholarship
I had it at my interview. My second question was If you are
going to do a research and one of these departments was going to
hire would want you to fudge the data in a given way would you do
it? And the decision that I had to make was I going to get
the job or am I going to keep my integrity. And I said I am
not going to do it. And I was hired and a year later I had
this circumstance of correlation against pornography that wanted
to show that child abuse is related to pornography. And we
reviewed about 1,200 cases in one of the police departments near
Atlanta and we could not find that relationship and they would not
except that final report. And we said well, that is the best
we could do. We never got another grant from them and thats
fine too. What universities that want to have research capabilities
have been doing in the past is infuse money. When I took this
department over I had an opportunity to build one. And in
the 13 yrs that I have chaired the department it became in fact
January of last year, ranked 14 in the nation in terms of scholarship
and publication. Thats not bad at all for a department that
was not even on the map.
Im glad to see at least one graduate
of this department in the audience. And he didnt even know
that I was going to be here. So I did not pay him to show
up. Yet moving from just teaching obligations to research
obligations, takes more than money, it takes a commitment.
It takes a commitment from the university to put their money where
their mouth is, it takes networking, it takes support and it takes
the need to offer an environment that is conducive of an is supported
of the activities of those professors who are hired in order to
do their job. I see no difference between that and the conducive
and supportive environment in a police department for police officers
with education. And I am saying this because some of the officers
that have graduated from program with a masters degree came back
to me and said as soon as I got my degree, I was placed on the grave
yard shift because people were envious that I had my degree.
In fact for some, it is seen as a threat. So we need
to realize that in the transition period someplaces where you dont
have 85% of higher education that could be a problem.
But let me move beyond the qualities of education
for the individual officers and the department. We need to
talk about higher education and the value that they bring to policing
as a profession. And I am allowing myself to say we are lagging
here far behind all the other helping professions. If you
want to name a few look at nursing and health, look at teaching
and education and look at social workers and psychologists to various
degrees in social services. They not only have POST councils
to certify their professional behavior but they have professional
associations that dictate to the universities what kind of curriculum
the universities have to offer in order for the professional association
to accredit the professional degree. In law school of course
it falls under that category as well. That by the way, the
universities claim they have academic freedom right?. They
do some to some extent. They do but not when it comes to professionalism.
What is dictated in professionalism is what the professional association
dictates. And I would almost raise a challenge to the IACP
to take that tact and actually try and dictate to the universities,
what kind of future police officers do they want to see out there.
Because that is where you can make most of the difference in how
policing is going to look in 50 or 100 yrs from now. The impact
on the service is tremendous because we have in the hallway one
of the mottos of what the police officers are expected to do and
if you really are expected to do all of this. You really need
degrees not only in just higher education, but you have to be psychologists,
lawyer, physician and you all these things in the motto. That
fact is that because we are lagging as professions -.because we
are lagging behind general standardization policing is not seen
as a prestigious occupation. In fact, ironically, that is
why it is easier for you to hire those with higher education.
Some of it is more difficult. Because what is it that we are
basically asking, we are asking them to perform at a higher level
and we are not giving them the skills to do that. And what
are the skills? It is the ability to have critical thinking.
And we talk a lot about it, but not everyone delivers in it.
But I will tell you one thing I remembered from my father is that
education is the one thing no one can take away from you.
Think about that, because salaries change, positions change but
the value of education means if you hire good police officers you
will have to compete for them because they may be more mobile, they
may be able to go to other positions and you may want to compete
not just for the best police officers but for the best out there.
Because the challenge of police officers is not only that they have
to abide by the constitution and provide services, and not only
because they are the front line of government services, but police
officers are really a profession that does nothing else like it
- because it is a generous profession. Most other professions
are highly specific. And I am not going to go much more in
to that. If we talk about police occupational prestige,
anyone know on the rank of 0-100 where do police rank? No.
2 you wish. On 0-100 give me a number. Where does the
Supreme Court Justice Rank? Right up to the top. Where
do nurses and teachers rank? 70-78. Where do police
officers rank? You are all sitting down -28. And if
that is not a call for some alarm, I do not know what is.
And you really need to take that to heart. Because if you
do not have the professional out there that can compete with other
professions, we are sort of putting ourselves at a disadvantage.
Because when we sit, we sit with civic communities, civic committees,
organziations, associations, volunteers,. Everyone in that
room will probably out educated the police officers there.
Of course, there are the examples, and exceptions that you have
described that I am please to hear that and a really good rule model.
What are the implications of education?
Budget, the higher the education, the higher the salaries.
When the city manager and mayor and accounting manager come to you
and say, Guess what, we are going to cut you 5%. What are
you going to do? You are going to hire people with lower education,
because thats part the possibility of cutting budgets.
Thats why, higher education in policing is not an issue between
a police chief and a city manager. It is an issue between
policing as a profession and all other professions. You have
to compete for survival. And that is what IACP can do best.
So I see challenges, it is not a smooth road ahead. It is
not easy to do and there are some exceptions and in some places
you have a good layer of educated people. But I think what
I would like to see in the next 20-25 yrs. We would see the
proportions that the chief has described much more prevalent around
Thank you very much.
Mary Ann Viverette
Thank you Dr. Freidman,We are really happy you could be with us
on such short notice, Thank you. If there are no burning questions,
we will move on to our last speaker. And hopefully you will
all have questions for the panel. Our next speaker is Dr.
Mayo, Lou Mayo, who has over 50 yrs of operations research studying
and consulting in policing. He was the staff co-founder of
the National Institute of Justice,. after being with a group associated
with the presidents crime commission. For 20 yrs at NIJ, he
developed and directed training and demonstration programs in the
new concepts for improving local policing including executive training
for 20,000 police officials =.such as the original designs for community
policing and domestic violence intervention. He founded PACE
- devoted to hastening the day when all police will
meet the college degree standards recommended by the national commissions
and the federal courts. He holds a BA, MA and PH.D. degrees
in the policing field. Please join me in welcoming Lou Mayo.
Chief Viverette, members of the panel, distinguished
policing officials assembled here.
The Police Association for College Education
welcomes this opportunity to discuss with you
the common essential ingredient for improving
the police as recommended by many national commissions,
the Federal Courts and
other leading authorities - college degreed
police officers. I will try to be
brief in order to allow questions within the limited
time available. Although I will discuss
the views of many authorities, they are all consistent with
my experiences of over 50 years in policing with the last
35 years devoted to working at the national level on efforts
to improve local policing, beginning with my association
with the OLEA group associated with the President's
Commission on Law Enforcement and the Administration of Justice
I do not agree
with the statement of then Senator Hruska of Nebraska
(over 30 years ago), in defense of
a U.S. Supreme Court nominee widely regarded to be "mediocre".
He said that "the mediocre people are entitled
to like-kind of representation on the Court".
Only the best professionally qualified
should have the ultimate awesome powers
of summarily depriving a person of liberty or
life, as well as dealing with multitude
of personal and community problems. This
must be a constant consideration
in police qualifications.
In a recent publication by
the Police Executive Research Forum reporting on a
survey of police chiefs on needed changes, including dealing with
racially based policing, they emphasize:.
prejudice, arbitrary decisions, treatment disparity and disrespect
are to be
replaced by universal respect, and equitable use of police
powers, then we
must begin a process of bringing all police into accord democratic
We must insist that the protection of human rights is a fundamental
of the police.... We must examine the beliefs regarding the
role of the Police
and eradicate from the police CULTURE that leads to the use of bias
It continues. "Leaders'
ability to support, encourage and build the internal
culture's positive aspects is critical
to progressive policies." They had
referenced that changes in procedures were not
successful because they do not
change the basic police organization CULTURE..
I would comment
that fundamental to changing the CULTURE of a police organization
is to require college degrees which instill and produce
an understanding of basic democratic values in a discretion-based
professional environment, to replace
the procedural and militaristic organization
so traditional and so destructive
of quality policing. I have observed dramatically different
cultures in lice departments which require college degrees for all
The President's Crime Commission
described the police role.
Few professions are so peculiarly charged with individual
. Complexities inherent
in policing further dictate that officers possess a high
intellect, education, tact, sound judgement, physical courage, emotional
impartiality and honesty.. Mistakes in judgment could cause
citizens and even to the community.
The Commission continues, recommending
college degrees for officers..
The quality of
policing will not improve significantly until higher education
established for its personnel.
The Commission added.
It is nonsense
to state or assume that the enforcement of law is so simple
can be done by
those unencumbered by the study of liberal arts.
Officers of any
department should certainly
be conversant with the structure of government and its
They must be well grounded in sociology, criminology, and human
relations in order to
understand the ramifications of the problems which confront
further supported by the American Bar Association
in their Standards for the Urban Police Function.
. Police need personnel
in their ranks who have the characteristics a college
to foster; intellectual curiosity, analytical ability, articulateness,
and a capacity
to relate the events of the day to the social, political and
context in which
The Bar Association continues.
Since a principal function
of the police is the safeguarding of democracy, if the
fail to conform
their conduct to the requirements of law, they subvert the
democratic process and
frustrate the achievement of a principal police function.
The Federal Courts have stated similarly.
Thus, police officers
are left with their more essential task which includes
control in a period
of increasing social turmoil, preservation of our Constitutional
guarantees, and exercise
of the broadest discretion - sometimes involving life
death decisions -
of any government service. The need for police officers who
mature, and knowledgeable about social and political
decisions is apparent.
... (A) college education develops and imparts the requisite
level of knowledge.
(Emphasis added.) Davis v. Dallas, 777 F.2d 205, 6th Cir. 1985,
Certiorari denied to
the U.S. Supreme Court May 19, 1986.
All of these finding and recommendations
have a common theme of changing the CULTURE
of policing to a college degree
based professional level being essential for achieving quality
policing. I would note that all of
these recommendations preceded community policing
with its significantly increased intellectual requirements
for officers to deal with a wider range of complex problems.
To this we add
the over 30 years of research studies that consistently
show that college educated officers
have much fewer complaints of failure to conform
to the requirements of the law and other abuses of
authority. The latest is the
research by Dr. Cunningham using Florida data which
he discussed earlier. This alone is clear justification for
college degree standards to avoid multi-million
lawsuits, as well as the resulting destruction of police
reputation resulting from such abuse of authority.
Many chiefs have expressed
concern to me that if they institute college degree
requirements they will not
have sufficient applicants. Let me
emphasize that another myth of policing is that
college degree standards result in a shortage of officers
in general and minorities nn particular.
Numerous police chiefs with college standards report
they are finding am adequate supply
of well qualified officer applicants, including minority
and female officers, with long waiting lists
- frequently including officers from other departments desiring
to work in a more professional environment.
Historically, both minority and
women officers average higher education than white
For many with college degrees, particularly
minorities, applying for a job not requiring their degree
is considered to be beneath them and a waste
of efforts to earn the degree.
College degree applications should increase
with publicity of this requirement for being a police
officer. Costs of examination/selection
will be greatly reduced as a large
number of of otherwise unqualified applicants
will be excluded because they do
not possess college degrees.
However, as was emphasized in a
recent article entitled, "Police Recruitment in a
Booming Economy", by Dr. Larry T. Hoover, major
impediments to police recruiting include "low
occupational prestige and poor working conditions, in
addition to a cumbersome application process which is
both demeaning and frustrating". He also states, "We
need to find ways to make the occupation attractive
to today's youth. But in this respect
we are our own worst enemies." His recommendations
include "improved recruiting and making
potential applicants feel more welcome from the
first point of inquiry". Dr. Hoover's observations
are even more relevant to a
department requiring college degrees for officer applicants.
To attract and RETAIN
professional/degreed police officers the police department
needs to project the image of
a professional organization, which fortunately
is consistent with creating an organization
with improved police services to the people of the city and
reducing stress factors, including professionally
challenging effective field operations with
community-based fixed assignments replacing rotating
shifts, in place of costly, wasteful, boring and ineffective
aimlessly riding around in patrol cars. This is a model
I developed and successfully demonstrated in the early 70's.
The end result
is to change the police organization CULTURE fundamentally
from acting on a centralized impersonal,
isolated, aggressive, authoritarian, militaristic mode
of an occupying army to a decentralized, friendly,
cooperative, collegiate, professional, public
service, with modern participative management mode which
has also been shown to be the most effective way
to prevent and control crime and disorder and
which fits perfectly with the college degreed
As previously stated from the President's
Crime Commission, it is inconceivable that a person
without a college degree could perform all these complex
social and legal tasks of police and many college graduates
also cannot. It takes a superior
student. For the unqualified, high stress results.
I would quote from an editorial from the
Atlantic City Press, "Towns that put new
police officers without college degrees on the street are shortchanging
For those who state that although
desirable, it can't be done, I point to the over 35 cities
and counties which have accomplished this successfully, including
cities the size of Arlington, Texas as has been described
to you.. Community policing provides the
optimal working environment for maximum
utilization of the abilities of the
college educated officer - so the issues are complimentary.
This professional working environment will also assist
in recruiting and retaining the college educated officer.
In the near future PACE will
publish a booklet on "Successful Recruitment of
College Degreed Officers".
In conclusion, I would like to
cite the National Advisory Commission on Criminal Justice
Standards and Goals:
At the conclusion of this chapter, a judgement made at its
repeating: "The most enduring problems in criminal justice
are not technical
or financial -- they are political.
I hope you can make the best political decisions for the
people of your city. In my opinion
such decisions are critical to your success as a
chief. If you decide to require college degrees
for officers, PACE stands ready to assist you in successful achievement.
I invite all of you to join
in this important national movement to improve policing.
At your chairs there is information about PACE and our
December national meeting on a Caribbean cruise ship.
Also please complete the short survey form and deposit
it at Booth 136 - ASLET - to win a 19" color TV.
Mary Ann Viverette
Thank you Dr. Mayo, you certainly have a wealth of experience and
history in this area.
Okay, we have heard from the four panelist and hopeful that you
all have some questions that may not only help you but other Chiefs
here in the audience this morning.
Are there any questions?
Questions and Answers
What specific behaviors were manifested in those types of offenses
that resulted in discipline issued by the state differ in the educational
A. Scott Cunningham
What we found is that when you are talking about loss of certification.
It is more likely that officers with the lower educational levels
would get themselves into a position more readily than other ones.
A masters educated officer, there were officers with master degrees
that had their certification lost. The same with the High
School. There really wasnt much difference in the type of
offenses, that the people were involved across the educational degree.
A lot of it was untruthfulness, sex offenses, integrity issues.
There were a handful that was a use of force. Use of force
really was the only one that we could gather from the information
we had was a little bit more prevalent in the high school educated
officers than the higher level educated officer. The other
types of transgression that resulted in certification loss was pretty
uniformed across the educational level. The only one that
we saw that there was more of at the high school level was use of
force. Now that is still relatively devastating offense, but
any of them that result in certification loss were also devastating,
particularly to the individual, to the department, and the community,
because each case did result in media attention locally and throughout
the state in some cases.
Q. Chief Cunningham, if you controlled for things like variables
age gender, years of service. Would your Table 2 and 3 look
A. Scott Cunningham
Not a lot, but there would be some difference in there. One
of things that we didnt have and this is a problem with the data
that is available when you look at it. - especially when you want
to do it nation wide and have a little bit more meaning than one
states experiences. Being able to go into the databases and
pull all that information out. Florida because it is the same
commission that deals with educational incentives, certifications
and discipline. All that information is relatively available.
To do the actual in depth studies, we would had to have gone and
pull in each officers discipline files, then actually do an analysis
on that . One of the areas that we do have a question on is,
It is entirely possible that higher educated officers maybe higher
up in the organizational structure. That may lead to less
exposure to the situations that would allow for revocation of certification
loss. So there certainly is a lot more information that needs
to be explored and asked of . Also going across the state.
California has a massive population but they also right now dont
have an easy way to link the educational level with the discipline
process. And you also get into certain areas of privacy and
that type of thing. The records that are available in Florida
are massively different than any other states. Everything
in the state of Florida is open. You could come in and do
any type of analysis on Florida public records that you want.
Where as other states, the discipline process is very guarded and
confidential. The only thing in Florida that is restricted
is basically my address and where my children go to school.
My complete disciplinary history of every officer of the education
level, every personnel jacket, everything in the state of Florida
is open. Which makes it an easy avenue to do research.
The amount that you take it though, your question is entirely on
point. There are other issues that need to be explored here.
The study isnt meant to be a definitive answer. It is really
meant, like much research. Okay it starts us down road, now where
do we need to go from here. Now it seems to indicate with
especially 77% of all disciplined being attributed to a body that
is only 58% of the population. That there is some relationship
there. Thats where we need to go from there. At this
point we need more, but we think that this study at least adds a
little bit more evidence that education does have a benefit.
Id like to add one all of the studies for the past 30 yrs
are single departments, that is going back to study back to RAND
Study New York City of 1970 with the exception of Scott Cunninghams
study and one in California. The first multi department study
was done in California two years ago involving a series of different
departments. It was published in the California Police Officers
Journal. And with the same findings consistent with
these numbers. .
Q. How many start off by requiring either a bachelors degree
or masters degree versus prior police experience, who gradually
require a four year degree. Do you think it is easier to from
two year degree straight out to a four year degree and why not do
A. Dr. Freedman
That is a great question I believe that it is probably
easier and probably better on the workforce to graduate your requirements.
Going from no requirements to requiring everybody to come in with
a degree.That certainly decreases the amount of sudden and rapid
change within the organization and is going to decrease the stress
levels as well. So I think the graduated requirements work
well for the time. If I was to draw out a road map for other
organizations, I would recommend they would look at a way of graduating
the requirements. Perhaps starting with supervisor requirements
and an associates etgree. Then over time giving the officers a certain
amount of time for themselves go back obtain the bachelors degree
so that they would qualify for promotion. But then graduating the
requirements for entry level officers as well.
Mary Ann Viverette
These are great questions and we still have 20 minutes so we will
get to all of them.
Q. Jim Anderson, Montreal
To show the Quebec experience 1973, our government required all
municipal and provincial state police officers to have a three-year
college degree. There was a lot of backlash. The chiefs
of police wanted it, but they couldnt get it individually.
But united they put pressure on the department of security and the
municipal of public security mandated that this was so. So
for the last 30 years we have been training very specifically not
generically criminal justice the police chiefs gave us input as
to what competency they wanted the officers to have, and we have
been doing that. Not to say that we do everything right in
Quebec, but it is one thing we did do right. I agree with
Dr. Mayo. It is not hard, we have approximately 5,000 applicants
for about 1,000 positions every year. Thats over the ten colleges.
These are bilingual, male, female, English and French. And
so far so good.
Mary Ann Viverette
If you are just coming in and you didnt get a copy of the study
on many of the chairs there are a five-page white paper that you
might want to pick up. And there are extras, so if you want
to take one to someone else that is not here. Any other questions?.
I dont think this is a question. I wanted to make a statement,
because Dr. Cunningham talked about the POST commission council
or boards around the states. Im Don Hopkins, the Executive
Director of Maryland Police Training Commission and Im a former
president of IALST. And IALST is the International Association
of Directors for the Law Enforcement and Training.
We have discussed this for years. We were approached many
years ago by Dr. Mayo and we did a resolution supporting this but
you wont see the POST commissions council in your state making this
a requirement. However, the move that IALST have done is three-fold.
First of all we have started a decertification database that now
has 14 states listed through our post net which our webpage.
Secondly, we have been encouraging congress to support the old leap
funds or college tuition reimbursement. Because back in the
60s, I think , almost everybody my age that I talk to in the criminal
justice system had gotten some use out of the old leap funds.
And we think this would help to begin to move in this direction.
And last but not least, we are encouraging ourselves in each of
our states and collectively to get to the local colleges in your
state and put pressure on them if you have to, to get college credit
for your police academy.
We at Rio Salano College having been leap frog for years.
But at Rio Salano College in Arizona has granted Maryland
and come in and did a detailed study, 39 college credits for any
of our 20 police academies and for any of our individuals that completes
them. We have one community college in Maryland that I think
is leading the way, is Frederick County Maryland. With a little
extra, additional education in their police academy, they are walking
across their police academy stage with a AA degree. So that
is the things that I think we need to work on because I think that
works on both ends. The decertification, plus they are trying
to get more effort. I think its important to bring in discussion
the current law enforcement/police officers in this country that
need the opportunity to get the tuition reimbursement. With
todays technology, you dont even have to change shifts. A
lot of times they can get it through Internet.
Mary Ann Viverette
Thanks Don. Any other questions.
Thomas Moore from Omaha Nebraska. Dr. Freedman mentioned the
challenges we have as a profession attracting the best and the brightest.
I am just curious as to what terms innovative strategies, techniques
that utilize the best and brightest. Considering shrinking
budgets and what type of resources your committing to the procurement
A. Chief Bowman..
Okay, its not recruiting the best and brightest, doesnt require
rocket science, it does require a commitment to recruiting and we
use a lot of the same recruiting type strategies that many other
department use. But we have an advantage over a lot of the
other departments because we require a bachelors degree. Many
of our officers have a master degree and a couple with phDs.
They now are teaching criminal justice classes and teaching other
classes in other colleges. Weve created a network with college
professors and instructed who now refer their students to us.
But we have to target the key populations that we are attempting
to recruit. And we have to target our recruiting strategies,
recruiting efforts, and recruiting dollars towards those populations.
And so we are looking for college educated officers. We understand
that recruiting minority and protective class officers are a challenge.
We could put a newspaper ad in be overwhelmed with white male applicants.
Recruiting white male applicants is not a problem. We
do that easily. But the protected class applicants, the females,
the minorities, we actually have to target them. Go to colleges
with higher minority and female enrollment population. Talk
to athletic directors of female athletic programs in colleges.
We have to make sure that we have good relationships with minorities.
We ask people in the communities to refer people to us. And
when we go out on recruiting trips, we make sure that the people
we are actually engaging in the recruiting efforts are reflected
of the populations that we are targeting. So we have to invest
our dollars in targeting those key populations that are non-traditional
police type population. We are able to successfully do so.
Chief could I add just a comment. Recent study of historically
black colleges student body show there is increasing percentage
of student body majoring in criminal justice. And therefore
the historically black colleges are offering a more fertile ground
for this recruitment than they have in the past. And I would
mention very quickly that Chief Bowman. But that in the August issue
of LINKS, which is mailed by the cops office to the every
police department in the nation, there is an excellent article describing
the great works that Chief Bowman is doing.
I am interested in the comments by the panel. Once you bring
more educated officers into departments which I endorse in terms
on community policing. What do you recommend, not only to
retain them, but continue to develop them. I am not talking
about executive level development as they move up the ranks, but
of line officers with bachelors degrees. What do we need to
do to continue beyond in service training to enrich that critical
A. Chief Bowman
I believe it was Dr. Mayo who talked about the big picture.
In recruiting and retaining applicants with bachelors degrees and
retaining them successfully, require that we Police Chief and managers
take a look at the big picture. Every employee wants to be
challenged, they want to feel like theyre in on things. And
so we have to make them a part of the decision-making apparatus
for the department. We, at my department anyway, we readily
create committees to conduct research, to make policy recommendations.
Every year we ask employees what their interests are. And
we try and design and develop their training and career development
programs to address their specific career interests. We also
recognized, especially for female employees that are young and mothers
or young mothers that want to be parents, that providing some measure
of flexibility is important. So we have created programs that,
where both male and female employees can change their schedules
can create some flex time and take care of children. Go to
football games, whatever. And so they feel more valued
as an employee. So we look at their individual needs as employees,
we ask them about their career goals and we make sure they establish
careers goals, we create training opportunities to address those
career goals. But we also readily communicate with our employees
and involve them in decision making process within the organization.
And we try to make sure that they understand, they are critical
pieces to the department apparatus and that it tends to work well
A. Dr. Freedman
Can I add one thing to that. You actually started at the
university. Because if the value of the product of higher
education is to recognized. If you look at the profile of
higher education today, clearly any college degree will do.
It doesnt matter what you graduated in. But if you look at
the kind of people that are attracted to the profession, they tend
to gravitate to criminal justice. Criminal justice is part
of the LEA funds and only some of it is starting to go for the academicization.
We only have 20 programs around the country that provide doctoral
degrees. And within that I can tell you that if I look at
14 years ago, we have doubled that number of students, when we raise
the standards of demands and expectations. One of the first
things that I heard when we tried to do that is that you are going
into department because students will not think this is an easy
place to get a degree any more. Well it shouldnt be an easy
place to get a degree. Because when they go out on the streets,
life is much more difficult than just getting the grades.
So if dont earn it, you will not get it. And I think we need
to start not with just the police culture but if we are talking
about education. Were responsible as educators to start it
in the universities. So Im actually optimistic that if we
come up with fairly more stringent standards, expectations demands,
but with a helpful approach, not one that is restrictive to completing
the degree. I think it can go along way to helping the process.
Mary Ann Viverette. We have any more questions.
John Furman (IACP). I had to leave the room for a minute,
so if this has been talked about please wave me off. Theres
17,500 some police agencies, county, local. The vast majority
are small. Of that 17,000, almost 15,000 have less than 24
sworn officers. I wanted to ask the panel if you havent already
discussed this. What do you see as the future, because we
know historically, the smaller agencies have said forget college
education, I just need to get a recruit pool of any kind to fill
up my spots. They have even had to fight standards being set
by state associations on a minimum levels because they are afraid
it will wipe out their recruit pool. What do you see for the
future for those guys, for the smaller departments who want to get
at this issue to but are struggling.
I would like to respond to that. If you would look at the
PACE website, you will see that the majority of the departments
which require four-year degrees are small departments. I was
pleasantly shocked to see that data. But I do not have the
list in front of me but you will see that the majority of the departments
requiring four-year degrees are small police departments.
Ricky Bennett, Colorado. Ive had the opportunity, Dallas being
one and in Denver area to do a survey what they expected, what type
of degree they expected their police officers to have. And
predominantly what I have found was that is was in criminal justice.
The main reasoning was they said was Well we expect you to be the
professional in order to understand the system. And yet today,
we talked a little bit about professionalizing, we talked about
critical thinking, we talked about bodies of knowledge raising the
academic standards. You look at engineering and engineers
have a specific body of knowledge. Lawyers have a body of
knowledge. I heard, I believe, Dr. Mayo mention that our officers
needed to be trained in understanding sociology, psychology, individual
psychology. So I guess the question comes down to it seems
that a lot of people agree that education in this field is necessary.
But what is our body of knowledge. Really where do we put
our emphasis and maybe that where it seems we are struggling a little
bit. As police officers we have to know a body of law, but
yet we have to know something about society. So I guess, rather
than criminal justice, the question would be to hear my thoughts,
do we need to change.
A. Dr. Freedman
will try to address that and maybe I will be even provocative
a bit . There is a lot of mention about universities and
bodies of knowledge, and a lot of the helping professions teach
things that really are not purview. They also do research
that has nothing to do with the professional expertise.
Since I am also a social worker by training, I will tell you that
most of the research that is done in social work should have been
done in psychologist, physciatry or human organizations.
It has nothing to do with the assessment of the social worker
as a profession. Yet, they developed into guilt and thats
important politically. I think its important to do for police
officers as well. So when you are talking about the content
part of it is political. Political reality is in universities,
political is out in the fields. Good universities today
are accredited. Accreditation requires an assessment of
outcome. What is it that we want and I know that as a chair
I had to provide what kind of final product as a student do we
want to produce out there. So we have to say, okay out of
x number of hours we want to y number of courses in social sciences,
humanities and so forth. The fact of the matter is, and
I hate to say, the King wears no close. It is very difficult
to suggest a direct linkage to an A specific course and the type
of knowledge that an undergraduate will come out with. And
I will say something even more harsh, high school education, when
I went to high school is about what universities are now when
they provide bachelor degrees. I know what I was required
of then and I look at what students are required today at the
bachelor level. I Dont want to say its a joke because I
make a living at it. But to some extent its reality.
The last fifty years, we have opened the gates for higher education.
And I think we need to do more than that. Now in terms of
the specific bodies of knowledge, there isnt really one.
And I think that the myth of having a professional at the end
of the tunnel of undergraduate education is that exactly that
a myth. I think you can get to Rome from sociology and poly
science, english. The FBI hires people with logic philosophy
and english degrees, because they turn out to be the best degrees
of the people who think. I dont know why, but thats the
reality. So theres really not one single way of approaching
it. And at this point, as an educator Id be happy if someone
became a police officer even if they have never even visited my
department. But for the long term, I think the surviorablity
of higher education that is get towards the law enforcement profession
needs to be influenced by what the universities see and what they
seek depends on what kinds of demands is imposed on them.
Which brings me back to the point I made earlier. Visit
the universities. Not just as an individual, but as an association
as a professional organization. And impose the request,
impose the demand and higher standards and you will get more than
one type of wine from the same barrel.
Chief Viverette. I know that there are a lot more questions,
but we have run out of time. I am sure the panelist will happy
to answer any questions personally. And you know where
you can find all of them. Im sure they will take a call or
I want to thank all of the panelist, not only for your preparation
and participation. It was great, but also that your commitment
to professionalism and law enforcement are really appreciated.
I want to thank all of you for joining us and attending the conference.